++++++++++++++++++++. blameless Law Prof: Years later, the church long ago destroyed by heavy abuse and the former members scattered, a number of them atheists today, that drama pastor is now into the New Age. He says he knows, "from the inside, some of these things that have come out in the public about pastors". Pre-1970 power (denominational competition for theological control of the Body of Christ), Post-1970 money (mega-madness begins, 6-figure salaries, limelight, mansions, jets). You could be the pope for all I know. Our musicians have taken to heart the mission, core, and purpose of Vertical Church music: To write songs of ascription for the church to use in worshiping Christ around the world. Was it released or leaked? As for your question about HCA and the video, it was shown in an elementary school chapel just prior to or during Holy Week (the middle and high school werent developed yet in the inaugural years). We see it mentioned on a few occasions in Scripture where elders were appointed in every city. Worst $12 I ever spent. dee: along with all the boys at SEBTS who dont want to leave the area so there are popup churches in every strip mall. none of that matters now. We were in a panic, didnt have enough hands to scramble around and cover all their eyes, which, up to this point, had been quite innocent. What followed, over the course of the remaining time I/we were there at the school and at the church in Elgin, attests to exactly what has been revealed about HBC, almost to a tee, and led to my first-hand interactions with Rick Donald, Fred Adams, and a few select others. It becomes a social club or a corporation or a cult or whatever. I can only imagine what was said as explanation, particularly as my spouse (still blindly loyal) remained much longer than I, until our children put up a united appeal to leave. I hope somebody has kept good documentation somewhere of all such dealings that could be produced as evidence. ANYONE who is still in that place who is not a child or a new believer is complicit and participated in shunning all who left. Who do you want to be in Gods sight? Anonymity is not the same thing as cowardice, but thanks so much for playing that tired old game. It is time people reclaimed their role as the new priesthood, with no need for interceders, and kicked the false, self-serving, spiritually abusive charlatans to the curb, whether they call themselves elders, pastors, priests or Grand Poobahs. When we separate believers into clergy vs. laity, pulpit vs. pew, us vs. them failing to equip and mobilize the saints to do the work of the ministry we miss what God intended for His Church and fall short of living in the Kingdom of Heaven here and now. Consider the following Scriptures: And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors [POIMEN] and teachers (Ephesians 4:11). VCB became Vertical Worship and currently has more than 20 songs in the CCLIs Top 500 Songs Sung in US Churches, including Open Up the Heavens and Yes, I Will.. It has reference to one who is seen as a care giver, or guardian for the church. A people laden with iniquity, offspring of evildoers, children who deal corruptly! (Isaiah 1:4). My Savior stands between The elders in one church have no say over those in another. Gateway is the church that planted Driscolls new The Trinity Church in Scottsdale and they are the ones transferring him cash each year since to keep it afloat and charging that to Global Missions expense. I have to admit that Philippians 1 often comes to mind as I look at these mega-messes the American church is in. Are you kidding me right now? Everyone who is of the Truth, who is a friend of the Truth and belongs to the Truth, hears and listens carefully to My voice. (Jesus, John 18:37). We praise God as many heard the Good News that weekend. The fact that its not supported by a single word of evidence is strong evidence that whats being said is entirely true. I didnt want these points to go unmade. . ex HCA Staff: ++++++++++++++++++. So this ole guy is here until the Lord moves me along or my comments stop making sense (please tell me if they do). Milky Way timelapse photobombed by the Aurora Borealis over Loch More in Scotland. a Christian/inspirational filmmaker, and former Director of Visual Media and member of the Executive Leadership Team at Harvest Bible Chapel . The worlds fierce winds are blowing, but ultimately it means people are brainwashed into being acquiescent, passive, accommodating, maintaining their silence. But you could change the future by using your failure for good. Dallas Jenkins was a former leader at Harvest Bible Chapel. In all honesty, Dallas, since Mac and those around him, including you, took great delight in his being a very public ministry with great influence and far reach, this is a matter for public airing. HBC leaders will have to give an account before God for these things. (In less than a year, he has doubled attendance.) said THATS what Jesus did for YOU!. The following is an extract from LookinguntoJesus.net, Presbuterous, Episkopos & Poimen Their strong Christian beliefs led Scott and Marsha Thompson to volunteer at Harvest Bible Chapel, and donate more than $72,000 over the course of several years. After a long season of fasting and prayer, in 2003 we were given the Elgin Campus. He is not egotistical, and not, as is so falsely asserted, all about getting glory he is all about stepping through the barriers of time and space to reveal his gentle, sacrificial love for us. 7,646 were here. I feel like all of the verses you quoted would work just as well if it was translated the older, mature believers in the church. I see nothing denoting an office. It seems like to me that in a group of people, these things sort themselves out without anyone declaring it to be a position and appointing people to it. Vertical Church Band released four albums through Essential Records: Live Worship from Vertical Church in 2012, The Rock Wont Move in 2013, Church Songs in 2015, and Frontiers in 2016with the last two albums peaking at #1 on the Christian Billboard chart. Fans of hit TV series The Chosen know creator Dallas Jenkins' "five loaves and two fish story". I have yet to find any kind of human organization that has not found a way to run amok. Then when it all comes to an angry pus-filled head and finally pops because the infection is so deep, he decides that things have gone too far and he writes a letter (but a private letter) and gets angry when its shared as a means of supporting the people whove been trying to expose the abuse. Almighty God himself being murdered by a corrupt religious cabal in collusion with the Roman military. Not exactly the mild and loving spirit of Jesus. Also want to acknowledge it took courage to write that letter knowing your children might be kicked out of school. Dallas Jenkins As many others have also said, I couldnt care less about what house or car James owns. I guess thats why I share my story, in hopes that others can be forewarned. Dallas Jenkins produced the independent feature Hometown Legend at the age of 25 and shepherded it to distribution by Warner Brothers. Craig French: Thanks for confirming the authenticity of the content, Dallas. And I know I post too much. https://classroom.synonym.com/the-role-of-the-clergy-in-the-greek-orthodox-church-12087637.html. humble. They began by gathering in an unused TV studio. Im holding out hope that my faith in God will survive, but truth be told, some days that seems uncertain as well (and save yourself the time writing me about how my faith must not have been that deep if indeed Im struggling with God and Jesus). Apparently DJ knew these things and witnessed these things, but did nothing about these things. You think youre justified at all in bristling in obvious irritation that your letter, which is apparently the rest of the story truth about this very public figure, got out of your control and hit the public sphere? Consider the listing of qualifications which Paul wrote to Titus and Titus: A BISHOP MUST BE I once perceived this as a tragic loss, leading only to hopeless cynicism. I firmly believe we are experiencing another reformation. In destructive cults that pose as Christian megas, there is evidently an attitude of privilege and authority among those who call themselves elders that is simply nonexistent in the Bibleit seems anti-Christ, actually. (ive mentioned my thoughts on this many times here & there at TWW, so apologies to one and all for yet another one. all of this is deeply regrettable. Someday Ill be big enough so you cant hit me In 2001, the Crystal Lake Campus began as the second Harvest church plant then transitioned to a campus, officially launching on September 1, 2007. * Apparently, many of the leaders sent their kids to Harvest Academy and there is fear that their kids will be thrown out of school. So join the club. Perpetua herself (the presumed writer of most of the Acts) also spends a lot of time talking about prophetic dreams and suchlike. It is finished. The time for half measures is over. TS00: We have seen God continue to change lives through the people and ministries of our church. Dallas Jenkins: In April of 2021, following an extensive search and urgent prayer, the Elders of Harvest Bible Chapel announced the new Lead Teaching Pastor to be Dr. Jeff Bucknam. Therefore, an elder is a presbyter, is a bishop, is an overseer, is a pastor, is a shepherd. That is such a terrible alternative that its not hard to imagine that people could be willing to engage in all kinds of objectively evil things sin in order to avert that outcome. If I find solace anywhere, its in the quiet moments of solitude and silence wherein I sense anew that the mysteries of life are vast, and that my continued pursuit of that which is beautiful and simple and true is enough for now. To new commenters Vincent is a coward: came to an old thread less likely to be read and didnt stick around to answer for his comment. More Campus News . Redemption is a gift, freely offered to one and all. so you dont. Most of those Ive heard and experienced who tout elder-rule polity will say that this passage says anything but pew peons having any say in elder or pastor selection and/or accountability. First Church Plant - Harvest Bible Fellowship Youre right to say kind of. Dont ever feel like your input here is ever wasted. I pray that God will continue to use you to shine a spotlight on wicked works of darkness in Christendom today. Why is any pastor allowed to act like this? Vietnamese cuisine is good! They engineered the black funds and the worst of the financial abuse. If a church tries to appoint elders who dont meet the qualifications for eldershipthe church dies. Consistent with your recreational activities, you took a gamble and lost. (Many self-claimed Reformed do not really know or embrace the God their theology demands, so its not an issue.) Maybe we should have been, and still should be, picketing in front of Driscolls new church, handing out pamphlets including some of his more famous woman-degrading statements? Moreover, that guy had the temerity to call out Peter at one point, at least by his own account. I have my faith left, but so much that I thought was real about my faith has been shaken off. Otherwise, of course theyd have told us what was untrue. Which almost conquered my soul. Churchgoers in 21st century America are just too gullible to keep these folks out of the pulpit. What we have is countless people cutting him some slack . Muff Potter: And if they refuse to see that these guys are nothing more than carnival barkers and mountebanks? Many have joined the Done ranks done with the institutional church, but not done with Jesus. Remove the plank so the splinter can be clearly seen. The office of an elder is not to be taken lightly. ChurchOne App . Law Prof: the posting of it on this website is unfortunate, as are many of the false rumors in the comments. When I did my own looking into it I found dead ends, contradictions, and all kinds of other things that did not fit the protestant narative I was taught. (Protestia) Dallas Jenkins, son of "Left Behind" author Jerry Jenkins, and Director of the smash-hit TV show The Chosen continued to double down on controversial comments he made last year about Mormons (Latter Day Saints, ie LDS) and Jesus loving the same Jesus, appearing on Ruslan KD's channel and again insisting that some of his Mormon friends ++++++++++++++. Ive been in churches where folks in the pew worshiped the property more than Jesus! Turning a blind eye was a full failure. They deliberately employ a faulty theology to ensnare and use others for their own ends. Harvest CEO J Scott Milholland, was one of the men who was responsible for the $10M year secret Black Fund which was used to grossly enrich the top 20 execs at Harvest (including Dallas Jenkins). I do know from reading the Acts of Perpetua and Felicity (said to have been written in 203) that church leaders argued with each other. Thats all it takes, my friend. Thats the reason Adams concocted his scheme. JMac will tap posterity for prosperity yet again as soon as he reinvents himself. And she is asking everyone to back off. Seriously, I believe 100% that the theological DNA is the problem, and that Truth was genetically modified centuries ago. And you sound profoundly arrogant. Im going to the training for it in a few weeks. Lord knows we need a fundamental change in the selection of leaders for the Body of Christ and an accountability system in place to keep the charlatans at bay. Watch Video. He claimed to be a guy who could show people the way. These head pastors will gladly pay SM large fees in exchange for helping them become secret multi-millionaires. Theres so much we dont know. And who appoints the elders (Disciples are no longer with us) if every church is autonomous? Does anyone have examples of big churches that are emblems of integrity? This all happens when we gather, grow and go together as followers of Jesus. Ishy: Probably took over where my favorite Vietnamese restaurant used to be. PJ, with the loss of religious heritage a forgone conclusion, I suspect they will next be raping our children of their identities, if they havent already. Or would they even care? Samuel Conner: people who were being abused, manipulated, fleeced here under the sun, but who nevertheless were hearing the gospel (as they understood gospel), even though it looks to us like it was being preached from false motives. We all know who to go to who can explain the meaning of a passage with more insight than anyone else. God reaches out to us, one on one, and he will continue to administer his healing balm to your soul. It doesnt even matter if you post your actual name, if someone is full of venom for you, theyll find some reason to spew it. Vague and almost never supported accusations, e.g., the posting of it on this website is unfortunate, as are many of the false rumors in the commentshere is always, in my experience, just a smear from someone whos actually rather cowardly and just looking to defame. You are the guy wearing the black hat. I think this is how these pastors maintain tribal loyalties. I dont know if its just that I got old enough and wise enough to start seeing it or cynical and hardened as I got older, but after going through the 1980s and 1990s able to find what I thought were decent churches, for over a decade I havent to find a place that isnt abusive, heretical, led by a narcissist or all the the above. No wonder why Harvest is in such a mess with leaders like you. having faithful children If bolstering the credibility of truth-tellers is a problem to you, your commitments are misplaced (to put it mildly). If people develop So theyll speak of doin church together, or kingdom life, or some such nonsense. The Chosen is Different. not quick-tempered Jesus talked a LOT about living in the Kingdom we would do well to read His words living in the church doesnt always mean living in the Kingdom. After a while, he and his band of yes-men elders drifted farther from the Main Thing, allowing the main thing to be about them and schemed in the shadows to preserve their ministry. My understanding is that Driscoll also consulted with Gateway. (Dee). Scott G Winterton, Deseret News. I doubt that those 4-dozen ex-HBC leaders will list HBC experience on their curriculum vitae or MacDonald as a reference so they might be hard to detect; thus, beware! 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